THE DAILY APOCALYPSE
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THE DAILY APOCALYPSE
my irregular exegesis of the 2nd edition of Apocalypse World.
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​​Picture from cover
of Apocalypse World, 2nd ed.
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154. Subterfuge moves, Snowballs, and Resolution

4/8/2019

3 Comments

 
Just a small, hasty thought today. 
 
As I look at the battle moves in Apocalypse World, and specifically the subterfuge moves, I’ve been thinking a lot about the snowball, and the discussion on the Barf Forth forum that I mentioned back in post no. 149 about the changes that the Bakers made to seize by force for the second edition in order to make the move a battle move rather than a basic move.
 
I link to and quote a lot of the forum thread in my earlier post, so I’ll just quote one small relevant passage here:
It's not about simplifying seizing by force at all. It's about putting more of the move's consequences off into the snowball, like I've been saying, to create the opening for the other battle moves to lead and follow it. Explicitly follow on the miss, implicitly lead and follow on a hit. (reply #92, http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=8835.60)

The thing that I’m interested in is the way moves are built to “put [their] consequences off into the snowball” rather than resolving the conflict or the situation entirely.  What this reminds me of is the once-hot topic of task resolution vs. conflict resolution.   (You can read Vincent’s early thoughts on this distinction on his anyway blog here: http://lumpley.com/hardcore.html (it’s in the fourth post, titled “Conflict Resolution vs. Task Resolution”)).  Task resolution, at its most basic understanding, is that the thing being resolved is the success or failure of a specific action without a larger set of actions, such as a single sword swing in a battle, or an attempt to move silently over one defined area as part of a larger silent approach.  The scale can be vast or narrow.  In conflict resolution, the things being resolved is the entirety of the conflict at issue, the whole of that specific battle or of that specific infiltration.
 
Moves in Apocalypse World resolve one situation into a different situation where the fiction has significantly shifted in one way or another.  But the set of battle moves are designed to be interconnected as the fiction requires so that they can tumble from one into the other.  For example, the subterfuge moves are specifically designed to “allow the players’ characters to get into or out of a battle on their own terms” (174).  So when you are acting as the bait or the cat or the mouse, the move is designed to shape the fictional positioning at the start of a battle (or in the case of the mouse, to avoid an disadvantageous battle altogether).  When you push the consequences of a move off into the snowball, you are saying to some extent that his action is potentially part of a larger set of actions, like a single task within a larger conflict.  Moves that result in a resolved (and changed) situation are a kind of guided conflict resolution. 
 
Of course moves will snowball even when they aren’t specifically designed to lead into or out of specific situations.  The snowball is then a result of the choices that the MC and the players make with their individual moves, riding the changing situation with escalating actions until they play themselves out to a momentarily stabilized situation.
 
All that is just a thought.  I’m not convinced it’s a very useful thought, but if I don’t write it down my brain is just going to keep playing with the idea and bugging me, so I appreciate your indulgence.  I know that the concept of task vs. conflict resolution is no longer in any way important to the way the Bakers think about RPG design, so I’m not suggesting that this was a comment that they were making through Apocalypse World.  
3 Comments
Michael S. Miller link
4/13/2019 10:08:44 pm

I generally consider the difference between task resolution vs conflict resolution as a matter of defining the type of changes to the fiction, rather than just the size of the bit of fiction we are talking about. It's not about "how much do I do?" as much as "what do I really accomplish?"

For example, I could imagine a game using task resolution to handle massive battles. The lives of thousands of archers, horseman and infantry decided with a single die roll, but if nothing you do can ensure that you will the war, it's still task resolution, not conflict resolution.

Likewise, in a game like Monsterhearts, a move like Turn Someone On might only involve a steamy gaze access a crowded room (a very small bit in the fiction), but it is still conflict resolution, because it is concerned with outcomes, rather than discrete actions.

My two cents, anyway. (Ha! "Anyway"!)

Reply
Jason D'Angelo
4/15/2019 11:28:01 am

Hey Michael!

I think we're in agreement about what task resolution means versus conflict resolution. If what I wrote suggests differently, then I wrote it poorly.

That's where I think pushing the consequences into the snowball occupies an interesting space insofar as those moves that end up pushing their consequences into the snowball (by design of the move or by the momentary fiction that is evolving from play) makes that action a "discrete action" rather than an "outcome," to use your words.

When I "turn the tables" for example (p. 176), that is merely a step into the larger thing that is that particular battle. Same with hunting prey and escaping a hunter. On a roll, the prey can get away and that action is the complete outcome, a failed hunt. But on a different roll, that action becomes a "discrete action" within the larger context of the battle.

I realize the distinction is small and probably unimportant, but for some reason it's an interesting way to me to look at what it means for a move to "put . . . the move's consequences into the snowball."

Reply
megaspin 777 link
9/20/2024 12:20:52 am

When a blind man bears the standard pity those who follow…. Where ignorance is bliss ‘tis folly to be wise….

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    Jason D'Angelo

    RPG enthusiast interested in theory and indie publications.

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